Products & Services
The report of the death of VoIP has been grossly exaggerated
By Charlie on 27 August 2008
ESPOO, Finland – Today I’d like to take the opportunity to point out an article by a respected journalist that was well written and balanced (like always), but also a bit off.
Om Malik writes on his site, GigaOM, that gives the impression that Nokia has developed cold feet and is turning its back on VoIP (and in nice chinese whispers, others have painted an even starker picture). While the title of the article is strong and Om does have enough questions about what is going on, explores the issue, but does nothing to qualify his statement that Nokia is killing VoIP on its handsets primarily out of fear of operator back-lash.
Eh, not so, Om.
VoIP is dead. Long live VoIP.
Om did quote some info he got from Nokia. And I am sure that now he has received even more info from us (we like him to be informed). I’m not really going to quote these statements here, but suffice it to say Nokia is still committed to VoIP services.
Om and some of the commentors on the post point out that, while Nokia removed the Nokia VoIP client on the particular devices in question (the Nokia N96 and Nokia N78), the SIP stack (the part that does the VoIP magic) is still there. And really, the Nokia N85 and Nokia N79, both launched yesterday, have all the VoIP pixie dust, just as Om would want.
It’s about split ends.
I did some digging around here for some more substantial explanations as to how this happened and, while I really can’t divulge all I heard, it seems like it’s a basic issue with the progression of the S60 platform.
There’s no conspiracy here, no pressure from operators. Not to bore you all, but it’s simply that the VoIP code and the programming interfaces (APIs for you folks in the know) were improved.* Yeah, the company everyone was led to believe was turning its back on sending voice over the Internet is actually improving things in the next generation of the S60 operating system.
Alas, sometimes when that happens, stuff stops working (as Om discovered). So, developers have to go back and re-do their apps (as Om points out). A bit of a bummer, and sometimes leads to serious doubts as to the direction we might be taking (as Om found out).
But, one more thing…
These sorts of platform breaks can be frustrating to someone building and selling software (as in ‘Uh, it works on these three devices, but not these two, and kinda works on these five”), but also slows down the development of a wide-spread platform. And it is not just a Symbian thang. I think it is indicative of how we are in such early-stages still in mobile phone software, sort of like the early days in computers (say, the 70s).
What do you think of all this?
*What I heard: “A new “VoIP Audio Service” API has been added for VoIP applications, which enhances developer access to VoIP functions and, for example, improves call quality and allows to easily switch between earpiece and hands-free-speaker.” I suppose that’s good.
Title with all due apologies to the great Samuel Clemens (who is for sure dead now, though his humor lives on). Image from mfx.
Related posts:
August 27th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Another binary break? Symbian and Nokia has been promising about binary compatibility (starting from Symbian 9 / S60 3rd); but it seems not happening yet. Each time, a new device comes, there are many applications stop working, etc.
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August 28th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Om Malik is right
It’s not as easy as Nokia is trying to say: There are hundreds or thousands of companies without an own software for mobile VoIP. They just rely on the SIP standard. In Germany it’s GMX, 1&1, Sipgate and the several Betamax daughters. Together they h…
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August 29th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
This still mean you cannot configure your phone for your own server in a easy way.
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August 29th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
It takes a VoIP app to tell your SIP stack to do its “VoIP magic”. It’s a bit like claiming my car runs fine without an engine, because you left the wheels on.
I’m sorry, but if it’s so easy for a 3rd-party to put a VoIP app on top of the S60 SIP stack, why doesn’t Nokia do the honours? Take what you stripped out and release it as a downloadable app? At least we needn’t worry about vendor interoperability, which, as I recall vividly, took Nokia quite a while to get right.
If you don’t set it right, this move plays into the hands of egotistical VoIP service providers who flout interoperability to keep their subscribers locked in. Bad one, Nokia.
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August 31st, 2008 at 2:37 pm
“If you don’t set it right, this move plays into the hands of egotistical VoIP service providers who flout interoperability to keep their subscribers locked in. Bad one, Nokia.”
Exactly. The SIP client works well because it works not only with every SIP provider, but with MORE than one SIP provider at anyone time. I use two different providers. One commentator has already admitted to using 10 different providers.
I make more VOIP calls on my Nokia N95 at home than I do GSM calls, not that VOIP is a threat to my provider, it doesn’t deny them any revenue as it’s only the phone calls that I would have been making too and from my home phone had VOIP not been an option.
I need the native SIP client that’s well integrated with the phone, not 3rd party apps. There are already enough factors for me to worry about.
1) Nokia’s software
2) VOIP carrier performance
3) My ISPs performance
Without having to worry about a 4th – the crappy 3rd party app from a VOIP provider.
No native SIP client and I won’t be buying the phone. It’s no use telling me to buy a E series phone, oh no, I’ll just wait for a mobile phone company to understand what “Having it all in one hand” is really about.
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September 6th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Does this mean that there will be a soft/firmware update to the N96 with a vanilla VoIP client at some point in the near future?
If so we can all rush out and buy an N96, if not then I’m holding off
.
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September 19th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
I don’t really care. I used the SIP functionality in my trusty E61 a lot. Now I hear it doesn’t work. What does it matter why? If I had bought a N96 I would be very angry, but I haven’t. And I won’t.
Can you please give us a clear answer: Will there be a software fix to re-enable SIP calling in the phone? When?
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September 29th, 2008 at 12:56 am
Here one possible customer more that won’t buy the N96 until there is available the Nokia neutral VoIP client.
What about using the phone via SIP in a SOHO environment with its own SIP PBX? must we build our own VoIP client?
Nokia could satisfy most of us just by replying if the neutral VoIP client will be available for download in a near future (when the supposed compatibility issues are fixed). But in abscence of this reply, what should we think?
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October 6th, 2008 at 1:11 am
Basically Nokia have lost the plot with this one. They are trying to say they have improved VoIP but in doing so they had to disable it. I am sorry – never heard so much BS in my life. Was waiting ages for the N96 to be released so I could upgrade from my N95. Now I am looking for another phone, from another company.
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October 6th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Folks,
I don’t know what kind of changes an update might bring. But I forwarded these great comments on to the device folks.
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October 9th, 2008 at 11:40 am
This is terribly disappointing. I’ve been with Nokia since the beginning, and now, for the first time, I’m looking for an alternative.
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October 12th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
I read a article that says I can port my current Sip/Voip to the N96 is that true? and I hear that Fring can do voip now on the N96. I’m so confused
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October 14th, 2008 at 10:53 am
@herston SIP is not gone (or disabled) from the phone, just the in-built client made by Nokia (at least, that’s as much as I know). As with any platform change (which see to come too often) developers of existing SIP apps need to make changes for this phone.
And if Fring is OK for the N96, then, good!
On a side note, I didn’t realize how many folks actually used the in-built client (at least, based on the outcry above). I thought everyone used someone else’s client to do VoIP and such from our phones.
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October 15th, 2008 at 7:44 am
Charlie, you must be with Forum Nokia. I know Nokia’s Forum Nokia people go out of their way promoting 3rd-party application development, even at the risk of re-inventing the wheel, and in the process replacing a nice round wheel with a wobbly one.
With the exception of Fring, I wonder which SPs exactly do provide a full VoIP client of their own. AFAIK, the ones that claim to do so, in fact just bolt on a VoIP provisioning app, not a full VoIP client.
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October 15th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
As others have pointed out, having the SIP stack still in the N96 but no VoIP client to drive it is a fat lot of good.
The trouble is, there simply is no replacement for Nokia’s VoIP client. All the alternatives I have seen make you tunnel through a service provider (fring, truphone, gizmo etc.). I have yet to see a third party application that lets me connect directly to the Asterisk server I have running in my LAN rather than having to connect to the remote service provider whose proxies connect back to my PBX through the Internet. Talk about inefficiency…
I really like my N96. The only drawback to it is indeed the lack of a Nokia VoIP client, so I’ll be keeping my eyes peeled for something appearing on betalabs or a firmware update.
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October 15th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
@bonnie No, I’m not from Forum Nokia.
@grschinon Good point.
I wonder if the device software guys are paying attention.
I think it’s time I paid them a visit.
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October 20th, 2008 at 7:32 am
Now that people are buying ebay n85 they are reporting lack of internet telephone app. Even nokia technical specs fail to list it as one of the applications it just mentions sip but that could mean api only. Can you please comment on this lack of pixie dust. As you recently posted you have n85 in your possession can you please confirm that in fact it has client and where in the menu it is located. Also using fring to set sip with betamax products is not an option as i get charged when calling free countries.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 5:45 pm
@Idan: To the best of my knowledge, there is no VoIP client on the N85, only the SIP stack so that third party VoIP clients (which have failed to materialise so far) can work. It’s the same situation as the N78, N96 and, as far as I know, all Feature Pack 2 S60 devices.
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October 23rd, 2008 at 11:31 am
@grschinon @ldan
BTW, just got my N85 (yay!).
I checked and Download! shows Gizmo, Frind, and iSkoot.
Sorry @grschinon, your’re just going to have to deal with flavoured clients, since we don’t have a plain-vanilla one of our own.
And, we regularly do post purchase surveys, so we’ll be able to get a handle on the impact of letting other companies make VoIP clients versus having our own. My guess is that folks will be fine using one of the ‘3rd party’ apps.
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October 26th, 2008 at 8:30 am
The VoIP-Integration for N79/N85 (N78/N96 coming firmware) is completely different from earlier releases.
The “integrated” VoIP(SIP) N79/N95 Client works perfect.
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October 28th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Still no sign of any real SIP apps for the N96.
Fring supports sip, but it’s streamed via their servers, not run from handset, and quality/integration suffers.
Compared side2side with N95/8Gb (nokia internet telephony app) there is just no comparison.
reading the docs on forum nokia, filling this gap isn’t (IMO) as trivial as nokia are trying to say.
Nokia really should be releasing their app. A fw updated? or is that wishul thinking?
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October 30th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
@charlie:
I would have no problem using a third party/flavoured application if there was one that did what I want it to do. Right now, there isn’t.
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November 2nd, 2008 at 4:06 am
Who are Nokia trying to kid? This isn’t “grossly exaggerated” at all.
Fact – Nokia are not shipping the internet telephony app in the N96.
for the end user that’s a difference between seemless VoIP access (N95 86b) to a poor addon equiv (fring, which isn’t a real sip client).
I don’t get the “progression of APIs” argument either as we’re seeing the client still present in some FP2 devices.
If it really was a timing issue, Nokia should add back the client in a forthcoming update. I expect they won’t which really really peeves me given there are actually some nice improvements in the N96 over N95 (video / music, FP2s AP support, improved GPS) yet they spoil it, enough to persuade one to look around at another brand perhaps?
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November 9th, 2008 at 4:18 am
I was absolutely ecstatic 2 years ago when I got my N95. I think I was also personally responsible for at least 10 people purchasing Nokia instead of something else.
The missing SIP client on N96 was a very unpleasant, unexpected, and unexplainable surprise. I am a TruPhone customer, but my company uses Asterix internally. So even with 3rd party client (and there is none ATM), N96 is not a solution for me.
So Nokia folks, can you please let us know what your intentions are here? My N95 is about to fall apart and I will need to buy a replacement. If there will be a generic SIP client, I’ll buy N96. Otherwise I’ll have no choice but to go look elsewhere…
BTW – To Nokia folks…. behind every person that took the time to post here, there is maybe a 100 people that share the same opinion that came here with a search of the explanation of the missing SIP client. And behind every one of this 100 there is another 100 that just got N96 and are about to take it back to the shop without bothering to Google for the answer… Take a look at the web site logs.
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November 19th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
According to the User guide coming with the phone, it says that you have to call your service provider asking them to send the internet telephone settings via SMS. In this case this option will appear on the your telephone.
Can anybody explain this?
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November 19th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
I just upgraded from n95 to n96. No SIP client. I’m very angry and feeling rather stupid for trusting Nokia with knowing what their consumers want. I can’t believe that of all the things Nokia could take out, they took the SIP client out!
Look Nokia, this isn’t RAZR and ROKR territory. People who buy Symbian smartphones tend to know about things like voip and tend to use them too. Go ahead do that survey and let us know what you ought to know and we already know.
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November 21st, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Andrew, it means the Nokias can be provisioning or configured by SMS. It’s no different from the MMS or GPRS settings which your operator sends you when you take a new phone or SIM into use. It should be noted that an independent service provider can also provision your VoIP settings. In fact, it’s the preferred way of setting up your phone for VoIP, because there are no user credentials to remember.
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February 24th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
I just changed my n95 8gb for N96 and i cant use the voip client. Give me my money back!!!
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February 26th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Is there any updates on this? I can’t believe the Internet Telephone is missing from the N96 I’ve recently got.
I don’t really want to have to go down the Fring route if I can avoid it…
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March 25th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Here’s another disappointed user. I “upgraded” from Nokia N95 to 5800 XpressMusic and, like everyone using N96, realized that I can no longer call my company’s Asterix/SIP server.
I tried Fring, which seems to be the _only_ third party SIP application, but as others have already pointed out, it tunnels its traffic through its own servers first, and the quality _really_ suffers. My colleagues couldn’t hear me! I had to resort to the SIP client in my Nokia N810, which I was planning to sell.
Seriously, how can a Nokia representative (”charlie”) have the balls to claim that the cited article is grossly exaggerated? It’s been 6 months since this blog post was published, and more than a few Nokia phones have been released without a SIP client.
Earth to Nokia: there are NO 3rd party SIP clients for your phones!
If I could, I would immediately return my 5800 and get another phone, but I guess Nokia doesn’t allow that…
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April 3rd, 2009 at 9:46 am
Why are Nokia not listening???? Simple fix, put the N95’s Internet Tel App as a download for the N96, i want the new N86 thats coming out to replace my N95, but no SIP program, no sale!
Looks like i’m stuck with my N95 FOREVER. Thanks Nokia.
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April 3rd, 2009 at 10:09 am
i agree nokia are not listening why put it on older nokia and not on the new release. this feature is a very powerful tool and with people moving over to voip service i think that this software should be released for the nokia n96 or other latest release’s of nokia. let’s hope nokia listen to us
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April 4th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
I wonder if its possible to rip the voip dialler out of the N95 & package it up as an installable sis file ?
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charlie Reply:
April 6th, 2009 at 11:13 am
@Col, I think what got us into this mess was a platform change between the N95 and the N96. Otherwise, the software would have been there.
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April 8th, 2009 at 11:09 am
I was planning a shorter post, but have to write this longer one due too limited time… Samuel Clemons (adapted to the 21st century)
Charlie, The market is speaking…Nokia needs to listen! We are Symbian company and household loyal to Nokia, but our resolve is weakening. In the mobile operating system market Nokia (6.1%)and Linux (4.2%) are the only two OSs losing market share.
Jason Hiner at TechRepublic (http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=1238&tag=nl.e101) did a better job of describing this trend better than I care to do attempt. We’re holding on to our N95s until we know you’ve heard us. Or until another product catches our eye. Once we’re gone there’s no coming back.
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April 8th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
?
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April 11th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
I have purchased a NOKIA N78 to use SIP Calls. Unfortunately I found the SIP Client is missing. I went to returned back the phone and get back my money. But they don’t seem to be accepting it. Because I have used it!(1 hour after purchase!)
Eventually I had to use Fring. But disappointed as its poor performances and distorted sound quality. Now I don’t know what to do with it. But I never buy a NOKIA phone without reading any reviews.
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May 26th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
NOKIA If you remove functionality what are you left with? Yet another reason to starting eying up the shiny low hanging APPLES out there.
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June 27th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
So the main question was left unanswered: Why Nokia removed native sip client?
I was investigating which handset to buy next, what is available on the market. And the main requirement for me is native voip support (with no 3rd party apps). Oh, well, go to hell Nokia, I have one more reason to wait for Android devices.
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June 30th, 2009 at 10:15 am
Be aware, N97 also DOES NOT have an inbuilt VOIP client… a phone that is above the rest, costs a small fortune and is missing this functionality??? I simply can not believe it…
)
Unfortunately I have to agree with all previous posters and go to another manufacturer (as much as i hate to do it
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June 30th, 2009 at 11:10 am
I am a owner of N97.
I disagree with the choice made by nokia.
It is believed that a new phone should improve earlier. the lack of internet phone made as in N95, E51, E61, E66, etc is terrific.
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July 21st, 2009 at 6:53 am
I was going to buy a nice new N97 before I came across this. But like another poster said, if no Internet Call app then I’m not buying.
Symbian OS is bleeding market share to iPhone and BlackBerry, a prime reason being silly decisions to remove of sharp, innovative features like this one. Nokia managed to build a significant market share over the years by listening to their consumers. Since they don’t believe in listening any more, I wouldn’t be surprised if their smartphone share drops from 40% to 20% within 2 years.
Charlie, you have been going back and forth with the product team for a year now and have nothing to show for your efforts. There seems to be a general doubt over your ability to make things happen, so could you please invite a product person to join this thread so we can communicate directly with him or her? And please don’t hide behind strategy because there is no way a company like Nokia would want to bleed smartphone share at this rate given the potential of mobile apps.
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August 3rd, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I also need an upgrade for my N95 and NOT a downgrade. Why did Nokia remove this awesome feature? Did anyone of you guys contact their customer support about this? What did they say? Are they going to bring it back? Fring is not an adequate replacement as several people here pointed out.
Do Windows and Android phones include a native SIP client? Resp. are there applications that don’t tunnel the data through another provider and integrate well?
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August 25th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
I had a conversation about this with the German Nokia Support. The guy on the phone admitted, that they removed the client due to pressure from the network carriers, but they obviously didn’t want to make an official statment about this. However, he said that Nokia is listening to their customers – which is a good thing. So I can only urge you guys to sign this petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/s60v5sip/petition.html
Another inquiry at Nokia USA yielded, that Nokia is in fact “planning” to release the SIP client on the N97 in H2/2009. Don’t know why I got 2 crontradicting responses. Either way I think it would be great if we could get as many signatures as possible. Please share the link!
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August 29th, 2009 at 7:18 am
It has been a year since Charlie’s original (yet wrong) analogy of the situation. There has not been a single SIP client created so far that will let me use my own server to make calls.
Nokia should chop the head of who ever made this decision. I will curse him/her everytime I make a SIP call and that is more than 10 times a day!
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September 2nd, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Just had a friend with his newly purchased E55. Of course there is no NOKIA SIP CLIENT a feature that should be BASIC in a business phone.
He promptly called the Nokia Store (he was in a hurry and bought online) and asked where is the SIP profiler… and the answer was that NOKIA REMOVED ALL SIP CLIENTS from current and future phones. So to have Sip he’s supposed to download a crappy proprietary client that sucks battery and is incompatible with any generic SIP provider… including HIS since there is just 3 of them.
Very good move on part of nokia. It looks they will be succesfully promoting the adoption of iPhones and Android for the forthcoming years.
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September 26th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
nokia does it again! the new upcoming n900 seems not to have voip capability or sip client out of the picture as it’s not mentioned in the technical specs of the phone. it has no integrated gps either. these are the two things that’s keeping me as an avid buyer of nokia phones. without these, i don’t consider smartphones smart phones. now it’s time to look to the other direction and find a smartphone other than nokia that will satisfy my craving for these two features of smartphones.
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September 30th, 2009 at 3:58 am
People here who let their accusations and threats fly need to get some perspective.
We VoIP aficionados are a small minority who don’t sway Nokia market share one way or another. We may sway industry insiders’ opinions, but only if we keep our comments fair and civilized.
Credit where credit is due: Nokia has put considerable effort into open-standards VoIP and the results outshine those of the competition. Let’s face it, Apple is lukewarm at best about VoIP, the available 3rd-party Jesusphone clients won’t even multitask. RIM had SIP VoIP on one Blackberry, but then abandoned it for operator-monopolistic UMA. Microsoft has passable VoIP support in Windows Mobile 6+, but its licensees routinely leave it out from their products. Yes, Nokia has problems executing (the N97 VoIP MIA proves the point) and its customer communication often makes things worse, but the VoIP-friendly mindset still bubbles underneath.
You don’t want to bully the big friendly kid with the speech impediment — one day he might get angry!
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manoskol Reply:
October 17th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
I was a happy nokia N80 (1st edition) and n95 user that managed to use the intergraded voip software with my asterisk server and use it to communicate through corporate LAN, inside house and even communicate of vast metropolitan wan in athens with thousands of voip users. Its amazing. There is no words to describe the disappointment of s60v3 and s60v5 lack of build in voip/sip client. The only sollution as i see with 3rd party software for the s60v3 owners (n96 etc) is the optimobile uniphone client (costs 25E) and really works.
I bought a s60v5 phone (not n97 or 5800 but i8910) i hope
someday optimobile will upgrade the app to use it on s60v5
Nokia we are dissapointed….to say the least
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Roller Reply:
October 28th, 2009 at 6:20 am
It is very difficult to go from an n95 to an n97 and not be able to use my VOIP provider. 3rd party solutions aren’t acceptable. Giving account details for an internal sip server to an external organisation like fring is not an option.
Regarding our ‘minority’, 6 of my friends got n95’s on my recommendation, and of them, some of them recommended to friends and so on. I am recommending my n97 to NOONE! and letting everyone know how much inferior it is to my 2 year old n95 (even with the 2.0 firmware that Nokia touted as adding voip).
The notion that a voip ‘friendly’ company would just forget to add it to their flagship phone is nonsense. If the app is not there, it’s not there!! you can’t be voip friendly and not have a functioning voip client! allowing folk to enter the settings, but then not use them makes it all the more painful.
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