Products & Services
Nokia lost some friends when we changed our VoIP offering (but there might be good news)
By Charlie on 08 December 2008
ESPOO, Finland – Nokia recently removed the Nokia SIP client (for VoIP) from a few of our devices. Many folk have had a lot to say (and are still saying it). And now there might be a solution.
Read on for more details in this story.
Feature show
Nokia puts out many products every year. Each device has its target market and target features and, in most cases, the feature sets differ between devices. That’s how all products in any industry are made – product managers weigh their decision across multiple parameters and release the best products they can.
Of course, potential users expect certain things from certain categories of products, but there will always be someone who is not satisfied that a certain feature was removed or something was designed a certain way. None of us can escape that truism “You can’t please all of the people all of the time”.
Just the facts
The Nokia N96 drew fire earlier this year for not having the Nokia SIP client anymore. We didn’t deny it or try to cover it up. We worked with VoIP vendors to provide clients that have been available from the device Download! folder. So, it’s not like the N96 is not able to do VoIP, we did not kill VoIP on our handset.
More than meets the eye
The folks affected by this missing Nokia SIP client are technically competent (also very vocal – check out all the comments in our previous post), know what they want, it’s clear that they are not going to be satisfied by the vendors we are worked with.
Is this a small segment of users? Is this a niche feature?
It really doesn’t matter, from the comments it’s clear that when the client was removed, it wasn’t easy for folks to do the settings themselves (which I am sure they all would be able to do, if they hadn’t been doing it already).
We know that this has been disappointing for our users.
Folks were upset. We just reiterated the facts when we should have at least given an indication that something was (or wasn’t) coming, or that there would be a firmware update that would put this matter to rest. We were responding as honestly as we could. There is genuine sadness for the ill-will that was caused by this and we hope as a company we can avoid such situations by listening and learning in future.
An offering
While it seems that the folks most upset by this change in VoIP client do not find the clients from other vendors that we offer (such as Fring and Gizmo) able to fill their needs, we may have a small ray of hope. Recently, the company released an app that makes it easier to create SIP settings yourself.
I don’t use SIP, so I have not been able to test out this app (not that I would know how).
So, all of you still looking for a way to use your N96 with the SIP system you wanted to use it with, let me know if this is a decent enough patch, a tool to help you acheive your goals with SIP.
If it does, then good, we’ve made progress (and I hope we’ve learned something). If it doesn’t, then let us know and we will pass the feedback along.
Related posts:
December 8th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
So what?
Does this software bring back the SIP client to the N96 or not? I have downloaded the program SIP VoIP Settings yet months ago from Mosh to my E61i and was able to see my VoIP codecs and the like values. It would be great if it was a backdoor to enable SIP on the N96.
Can you confirm that?
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December 8th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Very simply, no this doesn’t work with the N96.
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December 8th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Actually I’m angry that this patch – which has been around for a while – is now being put forward as a fix for the N96. What we need is a definitive yes or no as to whether there will be a patch or firmware update that enables generic VoIP functionality on the N96.
If the answer is no, I’ll certainly have to dump my N96.
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December 8th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
http://www.forum.nokia.com/Resources_and_Information/Explore/Mobile_Technologies/VoIP/Nokia_VoIP_Framework/VoIP_support_in_Nokia_devices.xhtml
This page clearly omits the N96 as a handset compatible with the “VoIP settings” application. Furthermore, I’ve tried it and it offers nothing whatsoever on the N96. Once it’s installed, there’s nothing new in the applications folder or anywhere else. In fact, the only indication that it is installed is in the application manager from whence it can simply be uninstalled.
Personally, I don’t need any kind of helper to hold my hand while entering what are simple pieces of information. I didn’t have anything like it on the N95 and I can set up a SIP profile on the N96 and get it to register with my Asterisk server.
What I do want is a front-end that’ll use that SIP profile and allow me to place/receive generic SIP calls.
All the VoIP vendors that Nokia worked with have managed to produce is proprietary clients that ignore the handset’s SIP stack altogether and tunnel the comms through their own network.
There’s a SIP stack in the N96, as Nokia has repeatedly said in an attempt to reassure us. Is it too much to expect to actually be able to use it? Rught now it’s totally useless.
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December 8th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Is this article designed to rub salt into N96 owners wounds?
As stated above that program does nothing on an N96, even with the latest v12.043 firmware.
Please can you correct the article and give us a straight answer: Will the N96 get true VoIP support (like the N95) or not?
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December 8th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
I think I’ve sort of commented this same issue before, but I just feel this particular VoIP thing kind of backs some of my earlier thoughts. I just don’t feel there’s a clear thought behind, say the N96, or a number of other Nokias. What is really the target market for N96? How is it different enough from these other target markets, so that it justifies an another phone? If the phone is now a computer with downloadable services, why can’t the target market just get the services they want? If you take some parts and functions away sometimes, sometimes adding new ones, there’s no consistency. What is a Nokia device suppose to enabe a person to do? Can they trust that they get all the same stuff when they buy a new model? Because judging from the comments this VoIP business is getting, according to Nokia, it would seem as if the wrong target market has acquired the N96.
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December 8th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
@msav:
The problem with the logic behind this situation is that there is none. On the one hand, SIP is kind of supported with the presence of the SIP stack and the ability to create a SIP profile. On the other hand it’s “oh, we’ll leave the actual application to third party developers.”
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December 9th, 2008 at 1:06 am
Charlie, I understand that you make a device to a certain market, but I also think that if Nokia is launching a new device without certain feature that a previous device used to have, so Nokia should make it available to download on it’s own website, because there are allways someone who used to use that function.
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December 9th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Charlie, think about it – is the target N96 market segment very different from the N95 target segment? Nope, it isn’t. Then why were some of the features that made the N95 such a success taken out of the N96 without warning?! I’d never have spent $800 to upgrade to the N96 if I’d known you were pulling out the VoIP front-end. No I don’t care if the SIP settings are still there. Good on you. What’s the point if there’s no client to use those settings with?!
Now, is there a firmware update coming up that will bring back the VoIP front-end? I mean the nice awesome integrated Nokia one, NOT Gizmo, NOT Fring, NOT whatever. If not, I’m selling my N96 on eBay and moving on to a manufacturer who actually gives a damn about what its consumers want. I’ve been a loyal Nokia consumer for 13 years but this was SUCH a let down. I even hear that phones AFTER the N96 such as will have it then why no download or firmware update for N96 users?!
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December 9th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Charlie, I laud Nokia for producing the helper app (it’s great for configuring STUN and disabling “offensive” codecs like AMR), but don’t even suggest it provides any respite to those left in the lurch by Nokia’s inconsistent VoIP roadmapping. Settings aren’t the problem, Nokia amputating VoIP is.
Also, don’t try to suggest that 3rd-party VoIP providers will support the helper app. It’s in their interest to lock in their users and not to allow users to fine-tune VoIP for their competitors’ services.
Would it be asking too much to have someone from Nokia comment who actually uses VoIP?
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December 12th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
The N96 VoIP situation has been quite embarrassing and this article is just the next nail in the coffin.
What we need is a working fix that enables true VoIP, like what people have been using on the N95 & N82.
How can the N96’s target audience differ that much from the N95’s?
All we ask is give us back our front end, ASAP!
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December 13th, 2008 at 4:45 am
The lack of the “internet telephony” client was probably the biggest let down of the N96.
I had an N80, which morphed into the N80IE and introduced me to the excellent “shell” integration — I could easily call any contact near transparently, registration was automatic. It was just there, built in.
I moved to the N95 8Gb and continued to use this function whilst on holiday, or business trips. I could easily receive inbound calls too.
Yet the N96, nada. It’s gone. Sure I’ve tried fring but it’s just not the same. VoIP is hear to stay — that’s what I use in the office, and for all my home calls (via an ATA). I am getting to *expect* that on my mobile too
So please NOkia, reintroduce the telephony app. The N96 may have the SIP stack, but there’s a lot more to build a proper voip client than SIP, as indeed various forum nokia articles confirm.
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December 13th, 2008 at 5:14 am
Just downloaded the SIP v3.0 settings app and installed (fine) onto a N96.
However I can not see anything under the “connectivity” menu nor any additional tab on contacts.. ie no sign of the app whatsoever. This is with fw 12.043
I’m ok with a little more complexity in defining the settings (as often a SP app would do that) but I’m suspect that this helps with the N96. Hopefully I’m wrong.
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December 13th, 2008 at 5:39 am
There some discussion here -> http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/discussions/board/message?board.id=smartphones&thread.id=110134 . sounds quite hopeful.
I was able to register with my SIP provider (poivy) just fine, but still no sign of the app, extra tab, or an option to make an internet call.
Is a fw upgrade needed beyond 12.043?
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December 14th, 2008 at 1:14 am
@planetf1:
The VoIP settings application does not support the N96. The only recently released phones supported are the N79 and N85.
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December 14th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
OK, Charlie, you should get the message by now! Did you “pass the feedback along”? What’s the response?
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December 14th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
NOKIA PLEASE DO BETTER BATTERY FOR NOKIA N96 950MAH IT S RIDICULIOUS§ THEN¨PLEASE BRING BACK THE SIP CLIENT I CANT DO INTERNET CALL VIA SIP NOW, I KNOW FRING it s hanging up auto sometimes lol BUT I WANT TO HAVE SIP CLIENT BACK IN N96? WHY DID U REMOVE ? LOBBYING,???
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December 14th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
An app which allows some configuration of the SIP stack (2.x or 3.0) which does not work on the N96 and still does not address the fundamental issue of the lack of a generic non-locked in VOIP client is not “good news” – it is just hand-waving that does not improve the current situation.
Due to our excellent experiences with the N95 and N95 8GB and the assurance of our service provider that the N96 provides a superset of the capabilities of the N95, we ordered 3 N96’s in order to use them as mobile phones, as well as office-linked numbers on our internal Asterisk-based setup.
We were greatly disappointed, after 11 years of using only Nokia phones, to realise that the vital functionality of a built-in VOIP client has been removed. I must emphasize again that Gizmo, Fring, etc. are not a solution here – traffic is forced to go via their servers, and we will in that case be forced to open up our server to be visible externally, as a result also degrading call quality. All of this while the Nokia N95 setup worked supremely, and we now find the carpet pulled from under us.
Luckily our provider was happy to take back the two unopened N96 boxes, but we had to keep the one that was opened (and with which we’ve discovered this unfortunate problem). This N96 is now essentially useless to us, being money wasted that could otherwise have been spent on another phone without problems like these.
I sincerely hope that we can expect a much more enlightened response from Nokia soon, otherwise we will certainly not use Nokia products again.
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December 15th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
I find Nokia’s silence on this issue deafening.
“Sorry, we messed up with VoIP on the N96, here’s a solution” – except that the so-called solution doesn’t support the N96. Since then we’ve not heard a single word about Nokia’s intentions.
So, Nokia, are you ignoring the problem in the hope that it’ll go away? It won’t. Are you maybe working on a solution? If so, that definitely would be good news.
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December 15th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
I completely agree with you guys. Can someone at nokia give some reaction on this issue ?
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December 15th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Now I’m confused. In the article above it states
“So, all of you still looking for a way to use your N96 with the SIP system you wanted to use it with, let me know if this is a decent enough patch, a tool to help you acheive your goals with SIP.”
The patch being referred to was, I assume, the SIP settings app, yet it’s confirmed this doesn’t work on the N96..
So.. err… ???
I really hope this will be fixed in a new fw update (> 12.043)
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December 15th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
I totally agree, I hope Nokia releases a SIP client of the form they had in the N95 again, which can be used with the N96 and onwards. This settings app being hyped now is defeating the point – it is not a VOIP client, and that is the issue everyone here (and many more people elsewhere) are missing sorely!
I would like to hear from somebody at Nokia who have actually used their previous VOIP client, and would know what we are on about.
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December 15th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Folks, I’m following the comments, but travel has made it hard to contact folks inside Nokia for more detail.
It was a surprise to me that it didn’t work on the N96, since I too was told it was for the N96.
We’re all in the same boat here and I think I need to tackle someone and get them to come on here and talk directly with you guys.
Charlie, Nokia Conversations.
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December 15th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Thanks Charlie, that would be great.
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December 16th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Thanks, Charle, for the comment.
The basic facts that the guys at Nokia need to know are:
1) Including a SIP stack in the firmware but expecting third-party vendors to provide an internet telephony application will not work because the third-party vendors all want to make money out of the setup and channel the comms through their own networks using proprietary protocols. There’s no way they’re going to produce a generic client that uses the N96’s built-in SIP stack.
2) VoIP users have been sent a mixed message and want to know clearly what Nokia’s intention is in this area. Is Nokia going to bring back the other half of VoIP support like they have in the N85 and N79, is Nokia going to remove the half that we have (in which case there’s going to be a hell of a lot of N96s finding their way into garbage cans followed by a spike in sales of phones from competing brands), or is Nokia going to do nothing at all, leaving us with a car with a great engine but no wheels (resulting in the same outcome as the second option)?
Enquiring minds want to know…
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December 17th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Charlie, grschinon’s comment might already have covered this but just in case it doesn’t (sorry my technical knowledge is limited), here’s what I (and many N96 owners I know) want.
When making a call, N95 offered voice/video/Internet call but the “Internet call” option is missing from N96. I can’t believe you thought removing it was a good idea! We want it back ASAP and we want it to use the built-in SIP settings. Yes I know the N96 already has SIP settings but fat lot of good that does without an “Internet Call” front-end to use those SIP settings!
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December 18th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
nokia n97 have SIP CLIENT?????
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December 19th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Yeah it doesn t make any sense that Nokia ve removed the SIP client, intern telephony. Basically Nokia kept the SIP config, you can config SIP and connect to SIP server via your provider but you CANT call, because there is “internet call option anymore”. I tried Fring, it doesnt work at all, when I called, my own sound came back to me looool. My question is clear, What was the goal of nokia, bring back or not? If the answer is no. Please do not hesitate to boycott N96, Nokia didnt inform us that they ve removed. I will sell my N96 ASAP
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December 19th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
so Guys, boycott N96, because Nokia didnt inform us that they ve removed SIP client.
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December 21st, 2008 at 4:20 pm
boycott n96 guys! nokia didnt inform us that they ve removed sip client, so my n96 will sell asap
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December 22nd, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Come on Charlie. It’s been a week since your last post on this subject. Can we just have a simple answer to whether Nokia will provide a generic VoIP client or firmware update to resolve this problem? I for one can’t hang on to my crippled N96 much longer.
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December 24th, 2008 at 12:34 am
please nokia bring back sip client for n96
guys http://www.nimbuzz.com it s superb soft , better than fring
working perfectly with bokia n96
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December 26th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
nimbuzz is another option, but it still doesn’t have the seamless integration we’d come to expect.
Additionally it’s poor at handling multiple access points or connection drops.
That’s why we all want the nokia app back – tight integration.
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December 28th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
“there are no plans to change anything on the N96″
It is shocking that N95’s “successor” won’t get one of it’s key features (which btw was removed without warning). Come ON, all we’re asking for is the VoIP front-end. There’s a patch for other FP2 phones so why not one for N96? I want to continue using my N96 but if this feature doesn’t come back, iPhone it is for me (and I suspect for many others).
Hound the VoIP guys Charlie, make them see some sense. We really appreciate your efforts. And enjoy the holidays.
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December 30th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Each year, my girlfriend buys a phone as a New Year gift and takes my old phone for herself. This year though, she asked me which phone I would like to have, and I couldn’t choose N96. I didn’t know if I have to go with iPhone 3G or Nokia N96. Why? Because of the SIP issue. I own a N95 right now and I am happy with the SIP it has. I won’t give up this function to get a TV phone. If N96 had SIP, it was my first choice. Above is my story. Me, buying a N96, isn’t important for Nokia as a company who has worldwide customers, however I am one of those customers who could purchase this phone. I think that Nokia has to listen to its customers instead of listening to providers. At the end all comes to customers purchasing Nokia phones, not providers.
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December 31st, 2008 at 12:42 pm
SHAME on Nokia !
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December 31st, 2008 at 7:25 pm
missing voip client ->
after switching from N95 8GB to N96 this might be my last Nokia…
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January 1st, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Nokia simply doesn´t care about us. They give us Charlie, a guy from the communication department with no technical skills to keep us quiet with a “no” solution workaound.
Simply give us a solution or communicate that there will be no solution, so we could sell our phone and try another company, which DOES care about us.
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January 5th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
All I can say reading this is that next time I’ll be looking at android (or perhaps iPhone). I suspect the application landscape to broaden rapidly.
This is a key function that appears to have been removed for no explained reason and that we know basically does exist for fp2.
Ridiculous.
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January 5th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
@planetf1:
To say that the VoIP client no longer exists for FP2 isn’t entirely true. Both the N85 and the N79 have it now thanks to the application mentioned in this blog post.
@nokia:
Why is it taking so long even to get an answer? Other FP2 phones have had this function restored so why are we still left out in the cold with the N96?
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January 7th, 2009 at 3:24 am
And don´t forget the N78. Its the same problems as with the N96.
Nokia produced a Frontend SIP Client, but doesn´t ship it.
I personally do not care about this problem anymore, my phone is sold and I guess this was my last Nokia phone.
After 8 years staying with this brand.
- bye bye Nokia -
I wish you an exiting bankrupt.
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January 8th, 2009 at 2:40 am
For the battery I knew that it is only 950mah but I did not take the time to check if there is a native VOIP client on the n96, as it used to be on the n95 (somebody commented it). Before finding this topic I tried the same steps as everybody is describing here without any success. I installed SIP_VoIP_Settings_v1_2_en.SIS (not v3) and than I got a new icon in applications, but this app could not be opened.
As I see this is not going to be fixed soon and for sure I will also think several times before buying a new nokia phone, and probably will not suggest it to anyone
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January 8th, 2009 at 8:47 am
For those who are following the comments, I posted an update on this at the end of December. I also mentioned that the patch I was told would work with the N96 actually does not.
Here’s the real meat of the update, though.
—-
UPDATE [22dec08]
I just received an email today from some of the VoIP guys here. Seems like, even though the plan is to continue supporting SIP VoIP on Series 60 products (we knew that), there are no plans to change anything on the N96 (now we know that for sure).
But I’m still confused and we still have a few unanswered questions. But now the guys are off on Christmas break. I still don’t think they understand what is going on. Fortunately, I now have some names of folks in the VoIP group and will have to hound them until I get our answers.
—-
I have some other related VoIP info that I’ll post about in the near future. It’s not about the N96, though.
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January 8th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
Ive recently upgraded from N95 to N96 with so much hope of a better product with more features
My grouse ….
WHEN WILL NOKIA SORT OUT THIS VOIP PROBLEM and give us just the same features here as the N95
sorry, but so far Im regretting spending my money on the N96 and an disappointed in Nokia not reacting to immediately fix their embarrassing problem.
In a years time I will now think very hard whether to change my loyality – this is damaging Nokia reputation as far as I am concerned
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January 9th, 2009 at 4:16 am
Charlie, yes I saw your update. But it’s just an update saying you still don’t have an answer. It doesn’t give me the Internet Telephony front-end (hooked up to SIP back-end) that N95 had and other FP2 phones now have. Well I too don’t really care any more as my N96 is already on eBay and hopefully I’ll get rid of this phone and my loyalty to Nokia within a week. Time to take a better look at Android and iPhone.
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January 9th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Charlie – thanks for getting that info. However the content is a bit like a poke in the eye.
N80/95 had it, future devices had it, N96 is being left-for-dead as an anomoly and will not have it.
This really is *excessively* annoying to those users that “upgraded” to NOkia’s “flagship” handset.
It’s like saying – you know what, we don’t care. But a new phone.
That is *not* what I expected when sticking with the N series familar.
Nokia – you’re letting yourselves down bigtime on this, absolutely a bad time to damage that reputation.
What’s ever worse is that SIP is still listed as supported, on forum nokia there’s talk about it being relatively simple to develop an app — so if that’s the case, and the app already exists then I can’t see why it’s such a big deal (ok testing etc I accept… but there may be options there like a labs beta or something?)
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January 11th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
I was very surprised as I “upgraded” from E65 to N96. The most usefull feature – the VoIP client – is away! I’m gonna sell my new N96 and go back to E65 or E66. I’m very disappointed with this.
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January 14th, 2009 at 12:32 am
˙suoıʇɐsɹǝʌuoɔ ɐıʞou ‘ǝılɹɐɥɔ
˙79u ǝɥʇ ɯoɹɟ uʍouʞ sı ɥɔıɥʍ ‘uoıʇɐɔılddɐ dıoʌ ǝɥʇ ǝpnlɔuı llıʍ ǝpɐɹƃdn sıɥʇ 69u ǝɥʇ puɐ 87u ǝɥʇ ɹoɟ
˙sǝuoɥd sǝıɹǝs-ǝ puɐ -u ɹǝʍǝu llɐ ɹoɟ ǝpɐɹƃdn ǝɹɐʍɯɹıɟ ɐ ǝq llıʍ ǝɹǝɥʇ ’sʞloɟ sʍǝu pooƃ
Folks, this was not me, Charlie, editor of this site, but someone who was being cheeky (even left an email of charlie@aol.de). Since this is the first time this has happened, I’ll look the other way (but I did flip the text – grrr). But we will have to take action if this happens again.
Folks, I know this is a tough one we are all working through, but let’s keep it straight.
Thanks.
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January 14th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Sounds good!
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January 14th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Great News. Thanks Charlie.
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January 14th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Fantasic news Charlie. Perhaps this was always the plan, or perhaps minds have been changed. Either way sincere thanks for following this up. Much appreciated.
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January 15th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
To whoever frauduently posted that text – it wasn’t funny or helpful. Please retain an appropriate level of respect for the discussion.
I’m annoyed sure, but let’s have a sensible discussion with facts & reasonable debate.
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January 16th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Is this for real? Was about to go buy an N96 from M1 when I came across this. So they took away one of the best things about N95 and instead of flushing red with embarrassment and doing something about it quickly, Nokia has been hiding behind “but it has a better SIP stack” and “we are all working through it” for months! And they’re asking us to use Fring that battery guzzler! Geez what’s happened to Nokia they used to be a cool company.
Look, the N96 and N97 might look nice but I just don’t want to continue being loyal to a company that’s going to treat me like this after I buy their phone. Unlike some unfortunate souls on this thread, I luckily haven’t bought it yet and I’m now going to look for something running Windows Mobile, which I hear can be extended to get decent VoIP capability.
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January 16th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
UPDATE [16jan08]
Folks. Seems like the comments are slowing down and there was at least one malicious person who commented in my name. Well, we have his IP address (and consequently the company name, for shame) and he’s posted non-productive comments under 5 aliases: Tobias, byebyeNokia, SIPCLientN78, ezhik, and in my name. Sorry for that. We try to keep the discussion open. Folks like these just ruin it.
But also, as I said, there is nothing new to report and this discussion is really getting beyond what I can provide here. I feel that your specialist needs here are better suited to another forum, such as the SIP pages in Forum Nokia (http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/sip), or the Support Discussion pages (http://discussions.europe.nokia.com). I know some of you here already participate in those forums (there are a ton of entries on SIP in the Support Discussions), and these forums will be the best place for you to investigate SIP options in the future and make sure you are not surprised by anything we might choose to deliver.
For my part, I will keep an eye out for anything related to this story, both SIP and the N96. I do also want to thank William, Ray, Nigel, and grschinon for helping me figuring things out around this topic and for supportive comments and advice.
– Charlie
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January 18th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Charlie, you’ll notice that many (if not most) of the forums you mention end up pointing to THIS conversation thread. So basically the buck is being passed around in a circle. Is there a reason why you can’t get one of your VoIP guys to join this conversation? I know you’ve made an effort here and we do appreciate that. But I work in marketing for a large corporation and I’ve rarely seen valid consumer requests rendered so insignificant due to lack of communication between teams. On my part, I’ll write to Nokia Singapore and blast them for this inactivity. Or maybe it’s just collective strategic muddleheadedness.
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January 19th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
I think what Nokia have forgotten here is the N96 and N Series customers are the folk that actually use their mobile phones, which include all their features. When was the last time you saw your parents or girlfriend buy an N Series oppose to a pink handbag version or set up a Voip call or even know what one is!
So the consumer demographic for N Series phones is power users who travel and wish to get the most out of their device. My N95 was great. The N96 has been a massive let down. Being an early adopter (2nd day from release) I have slatted this phone to everyone I know. Taking the basic principle they tell 2-3 others that’s pretty bad news for Nokia. I’ve been a Nokia customer like most of you for 10+ years. An interesting fact, Not a single person I know has upgraded or owns an N96. So they have obviously taken note. Nokia you have really screwed up here. The demographic who buy these phones are here on this forum and many others. The PM for N96 needs firing, the brand damage is massive.
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January 19th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Agree with Seb, N96 PM as well as supporting cast definitely deserve a kick up the backside for being extremely out of touch with the consumer.
Even their Suomeksi top brass – who have been parroting the “we’re going to become an Internet services company” strategy to stockholders – need to sober up. How exactly is removing VoIP from a flagship product aligned with “we’re going to become an Internet services company”?
Very bad call, Nokia. My N96 is already on eBay. A couple more screw ups like this and it’ll be time to sell the stock too.
But we air our opinions in vain guys. Anyone who can do something about this has either not been invited to this thread or has deliberately refused to do what he/she is being paid to do.
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January 20th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Pretgty much same here really. My colleagues/friends often come to me to ask for phone advice since I’m always tinkering, reading, replacing. I have also worked in sw engineering on telco products.
I always try to give a balanced view, and I wouldn’t quite say the N96 is truely awful, but overall things are negative.
I probably had my N96 earlier than other phones I’ve got, so I expect more bugs (there’s quite a few even in v12). The battery is still annoying, but I knew about that.
It’s the VoIP that’s a PITA, and since everyone around me is starting to hear about, and even think about using VoIP they’re getting the message to stay away.
I guess I’m just getting to the point of having had enough. I want to see more openness in defects, updates, see progress in some of the long running s60 issues, and not get a feeling a handset is left for dead as soon as a new one comes out.
No easy answer, but my absolute strong recommendation of NOkia NSeries has been slashed by the N96 …
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January 24th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Well its sad, that there is still no solution for this problem.
Nokia, please bring back the VOIP-Client!!!!!!!!
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January 28th, 2009 at 1:56 am
I own a brand new N96 and i just found out right now how screwed it is.
I’ll try Fring but I doubt it will be as good as the Nokia native client.
Also, providing it for advanced users as a separate download let non-advanced ones download and use Fring or whatever “simpler” client.
I really can’t see any real reason to remove it (and to not bring it back through a firmware update) unless there are commercial ties with Fring and other 3rd party clients companies.
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January 29th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
Nokia please bring out this VOIP client for the N78 I feel like I purchased a paper weight without the ability to return it. Why wouldn’t you put such a great feature in a potentially great phone!
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February 5th, 2009 at 8:11 am
@Nokia: please provide a solution to the VOIP problem. We have been patiently waiting for things to resolve.
@Charlie: Appreciate your responses so far. But, I have been unsuccessful to run even Fring/Skype on my N78 completely….apparently they cannot connect to any wi-fi network and so I cant login. Anybody successful so far? Please help !
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February 6th, 2009 at 2:34 am
I’ve run both Fring and nimbuzz without any phone specific issues on the N96, but neither are a patch in terms of integration that the N95 was, or the newer fp2 phones.
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March 3rd, 2009 at 11:54 pm
Glad I saw this thread before ordering handsets for one of my clients.
As an integrator of asterisk systems, the Nokia SIP clients in handsets has been a nice feature that we have been able to spruke and win sales against other Manufacturers, both on a PBX front and Handsets.
The next big question, will this be the case for the N97??
Wait and see….
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March 25th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
Charlie, how can you call this “specialist needs”? You’re trying to frame SIP support as some niche feature that no normal people needs.
You also seem to suggest that there are third party apps for SIP that works just as well as the built-in client of N95. Meanwhile, Charlie, you admit that you’re not using SIP yourself.
I find this whole display from Nokia unbelievable. I was using the SIP client every day at my job (working from home), and now I have to sit in front of my laptop to talk to people because my brand new 5800 XpressMusic doesn’t support its SIP stack.
I do not belong to a niche group of “vocal” people; I’m a normal person using SIP to call to my job. Fring doesn’t allow me to do that, because its call quality is totally inferior and people can’t hear what I say. That is with the very same network that I’ve used to have meetings every day for the last year with my N95.
Customer care. Think about it for a while.
And Charlie, if you want to be the Nokia ombudsman, at least show that you have the power to make a difference.
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charlie Reply:
March 27th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
@David Tenser, There is a difference between trying to make a difference and fixing everything. Some things can be beyond one’s ability to affect a change. I think this VoIP is one of them.
I am just as upset by this whole situation as anyone else here. I’ve been forwarding each of the comments to the VoIP guys so that they are aware of their decisions.
Also, don’t get me wrong, but did you check before hand if the 5800 supported SIP? I just want the VoIP folks here to realize the process that gets SIP folks to buy a specific phone.
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March 30th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
@charlie, yes, I’ll admit that I read that Nokia 5800 only had the SIP stack/API and no built-in client, but I thought finding a third-party SIP client would be trivial (and I really needed a new phone because my N95 was broken).
However, it turns out that there is zero (as in 0) third-party SIP clients making use of Symbian’s SIP stack. Fring instead connects through its own servers and the quality _really_ suffers. As they answered themselves when I contacted them:
—
Hello,
Thank you for contacting our support team.
Since we do not rely on the handset’s SIP capabilities the SIP traffic is routed through our servers.
We are aware to the delay and working hard to reduce it.
—
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charlie Reply:
March 31st, 2009 at 10:46 am
@David Tenser,
Aw, crud.
The Care guys picked up on what happened to you (I forward stuff like this to them) and your email below confirms their worry that Fring just doesn’t cut it (despite all you saying this all along) and that we need to cajole one of our partners to make something better.
You know, we can talk about openness all we want, but if no one comes, then what’s the point?
Sigh.
Let’s keep our fingers crossed. A squeaky wheel usually gets the oil.
Thanks for your reply too. It added a good point we can wave around.
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May 4th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
@charlie: I ended up selling my 5800 after I got my N95 repaired. It became an expensive lesson to do my research before I purchase a new phone, but at least now I can call using N95’s SIP client again.
I’m looking at the upcoming N97, but no official words from Nokia about SIP (client) support. Many people seem to ask if you google “n97 sip” though; any ideas?
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May 19th, 2009 at 2:35 am
I’m still looking for SIP client for my Nokia 5800. Is Nokia working on this or should I just give up hoping for Nokia to do this? All those SIP apps out there are useless to me. I need one to connect directly to our SIP servers internal to the company that those 3rd SIP providers can’t access.
If anyone has written one and would be kind to share it, please let me know.
Thanks,
Jeff.
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June 7th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Hi Charlie,
are there any news about the upcoming SIP client in the N78?
When I bought my phone in January, I was told, that Nokia will deliver the SIP client in the next months. So could you please tell me, where I can download the client?
Thanks,
Alfred
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Charlie Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
@Alfred,
As far as I know, there is no Nokia SIP client for the N78 (but I’ll ask again).
In any case, there are some better discussion on this topic at Forum Nokia – http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134999
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June 18th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
Does anyone know whether the N97 will have a native SIP client (like the one included with the N95)? I’m buying a phone in the next two weeks, and this is the make-or-break question that will decide whether I go for the N97 or another company’s phone!
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June 26th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
i just shelled SGD$1000+ to buy the N97 4hrs ago, only to find that the SIP was removed. I saw the specs saying VOIP 3.0 support. Now I’m bloody pissed. I’ve used the E61, E71 … what on earth are you doing Nokia???? Are you regressing?
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July 29th, 2009 at 12:11 am
Hi Charlie,
is this site still living? One month ago I asked when the SIP client for my N78 will be available. Is there no need to answer a desperate customer of your products?
Alfred
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Charlie Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
@Alfred, It is living. And can you leave a working email address with your comments?
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July 29th, 2009 at 12:47 am
thank you, nokia. muahaa haa haaaa.
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August 24th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
”
In any case, there are some better discussion on this topic at Forum Nokia – http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134999
”
Ist this a joke Charlie? The last topic there is more than one year old. Sorry but I am now a bit p….. o.. Nokia.
I hate too many restrictions on my Smartphone, so its my last Symbian Nokia phone.
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September 10th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Well apparently the N900 will resurrect the Internet Telephone feature which presumably means the SIP settings too. By the way you shouldn’t buy a new phone until you’ve checked the full specs online. I knew the N97 never contained the SIP settings software and it totally put me off buying.
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September 23rd, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Do ur best ,like a man,NOKIA pls!
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September 26th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Hi Charlie, and all,
I must say that I’ve just spent hours searching and reading on the subject of Nokia VoIP support. I’m left VERY, VERY DISAPPOINTED!
I’ve been a Nokia supporter for 10 years, since my first mobile phone. Nokia has shown themselves to be able to be a good leader in this industry, despite their recent wanning of market share. I do not understand a year can go by and Nokia has yet to address this topic of removing VoIP from their offering.
It is crap if it is the case, but in any case, people are going to find out. No communication on the subject and pretending that stuff is being worked on internally is just delaying the inevitable and pissing people off. If corporate pressure is the reason that SIP will not be supported, find out how this message is going to be delivered and then deliver it!
Simply not listening and/or responding to this MAJOR concern of customers for a year is enough to turn me off of Nokia going forward. It is too bad that this sort of thing could cost Nokia the rest of their remaining market share.
Regards,
Greg
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October 15th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Nokia is loosing money. It seems I am not alone beeing pissed off by this company.
Hey Nokia, pretending to solve a customer problem is not good marketing.
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November 2nd, 2009 at 7:43 am
Dear sir/maddam
I have lost my nokia 5800 Xpress Music, please tell me that if it possible to find it by GPS or not.
thanks
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