Carl Zeiss and Nokia: From the N90 to the 808 PureView

It started in the snow: How the Carl Zeiss and Nokia collaboration began

Published by Karen Bartlett on April 19, 2012

The Nokia PureView 808

GLOBAL - The launch of the Nokia 808 PureView has been the cameraphone equivalent of Neil Armstrong landing on the moon – it’s been a big leap forward. Judging by your reaction, a lot of you think so too.

In February we travelled to Germany to meet the Carl Zeiss team behind some of the great optics that have made  Nokia cameras so unique. They told us about the history of a company behind some of the world’s most impressive scientific advances, and showed us how ZEISS lenses are built and tested.  

Oliver Schindelbeck has been part of the Carl Zeiss team working with Nokia almost from the very beginning. He reflects on some of the milestones of Carl Zeiss’ collaboration with Nokia, and why he thinks the partnership between the two companies is so strong:  

First steps: Nokia N90

“This was the first phone of the collaboration between Carl Zeiss and Nokia, and it was really important. We needed the two megapixel threshold to feel confident that we were bringing impressive image quality.”

Nokia N90

“The first contact between Carl Zeiss and Nokia was in 2004. We approached Nokia about the idea of using ZEISS optics in mobile phone cameras, and we found we were on the same page. We got into a discussion with Nokia very easily – and both companies had a common understanding of the benefits of a partnership. It took less than three months to get from that discussion to signing contracts.”

“It all started in the snow. The first meeting of the management teams was in January 2005. There were five people from Carl Zeiss and five people from Nokia. They met in Finland, and went up to a guesthouse in snow-covered Lapland.”

Oliver“The atmosphere was very open and trusting from the start. It was a good fit between people, as well as between companies.”

“I joined the team in May 2005, and preparations for the N90 were up and running already. The N90 was very challenging for us, because we joined the process at a late point.”

“It was the first phone we’d worked on at Carl Zeiss and we had a lot to learn. Obviously Carl Zeiss is known for working with large, high quality, lenses made from glass. The plastic used in small, camera phone lenses, was a new material for us.”

“We already had  experience in working with miniature lenses. In fact, Carl Zeiss built a camera lens that small as far back as the 1920s, made out of glass. And, of course, Carl Zeiss is a world leader in producing microscopy lenses, which are even smaller than camera lenses.”

“What was really new for us was the scale and volume of production that was necessary for Nokia. We produce some of our bigger lenses in the hundreds, maybe in the thousands. Working with Nokia we were looking at producing millions of lenses.”

Leap forward: Nokia N95  

“Working on the N95 was a big milestone. We moved up to a five megapixel camera. When we started the collaboration two megapixels had seemed challenging, so moving up to five was amazing. At that time it was by far the best camera phone on the market. Even now it’s still an excellent camera.”

The Nokia N95

“What really impressed me personally was that this was truly the first smartphone. The N95 could do everything you wanted from a smartphone – it deserves that title.”

Dreamphone: Nokia N8

“For many of us who worked on the Nokia N8 at Carl Zeiss this is still the number one of all time. It was a big, big step forward.”

“When you start to step up to challenges like making a 12 megapixel camera you really need solid relationships in place with your partners and suppliers.”

 “For us it wasn’t an issue of whether we could make 12 megapixels, but whether we could make a high quality lens constrained by the physical restrictions of a mobile phone. The size and thinness of a mobile phone is always a big hurdle for us.”

Cameraphone lenses

“The size of the camera module is a red line for us. The camera module in the N90 lens was 13mm for a two megapixel resolution. Now camera lenses are less than half that size, and the resolution is four times higher.”

“We elaborated a roadmap with Nokia, and began to work on the lens for the N8 before the sensor had been developed. Essentially, you are working on your part of the collaboration, trusting that your suppliers and partners are working to create their part of the project – and that the capabilities will finally complement each other.”

The Nokia 808 PureView

“Like the N8, we started work on the lens for the Nokia 808 PureView a year before the prototype of the sensor was ready.”

PureView lens“Sensor development is important because you have to allow higher angles for the light rays. More advanced technology means that optics have to be elevated. Higher resolution requires even greater precision in the production process.”

“Until this phone development had been in logical steps. 2,3, 5, 8 – even 12 megapixels. The scale of the Nokia 808 PureView was totally unbelievable. 41 megapixels. It was crazy! It took us some time at ZEISS to figure out if this was possible.”

“People asked us, what’s the benefit of 41 megapixels? For us the potential of this concept is not 41 mega pixels. It was that you get full five megapixel images, even at full zoom. And the technology for pixel oversampling means that there is amazing clarity, with no noise.”

“A few days ago we took three identical images using a Nokia 808 PureView, a mid range system camera , and a high end SLR camera. Then we printed them at A4 size. We asked people to choose which image had been taken with which lens. Even the professionals got it wrong – the Nokia 808 PureView really is that good.”

“When we started the collaboration between Nokia and Carl Zeiss seven years ago no one would have believed the products we’ve produced, and the journey it’s taken us on. From 2 megapixels of high quality imaging to the Nokia 808 PureView. The excitement surrounding PureView has been unbelievable, but wait until you see the products we’ve got planned for the future.”

Comments

  • Anonymous

    No android or iphone like it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Scott/100002401159073 James Scott

    I still own an original Contax RTS with 3 Carl Zeiss lenses I bought over 25 years ago, the camera and especially the lenses are worth more now then when I bought them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Scott/100002401159073 James Scott

    I still own an original Contax RTS with 3 Carl Zeiss lenses I bought over 25 years ago, the camera and especially the lenses are worth more now then when I bought them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1224743977 Danijel Lučić

    I like to see the image comparison vs system and slr camera too!!!!
    :) :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1203745619 Tero Lehto

    I had a chance to quickly try this during MWC 2012 in February. Even though I was very speptical, the first impression was promising when I took a few still photos in the evening in low light conditions. The result was less noisy and sharper than with N8.

    However, I’d emphasize the capabilities to take better quality still images in low light, better video quality and finally a decent digital zoom rather than maximum megapixels.It’s interesting to see if the good camera can overcome the bad reputation Symbian today has, even though the latest Belle version is a lot better than its reputation. I guess this will determine whether Nokia 808 will be just a nice technology demo or a successful product too.

    • http://twitter.com/HailMarxism fred sparrow

      Belle FP1 is amazing (even better than android in some respects but definitely on par); I’ll certainly be purchasing an 808 PureView once it’s finally released, so hurry up and get the damn thing out Nokia.

      The sad part is that amateur reviewers from the likes of gsm arena, gizmodo, and the verge, will still trash it because of Symbian, even though the OS has matured into a very competitive alternative. I sincerely hope Mr Elop and his executive team have an ACE up their sleeve with this one.

      • Anonymous

         well actually GSMArenas official reviews (not their blog ones) are very professional and they’ve always been unbiased with Symbian (again the actual site not their blog)

      • Bataleon

        Unfortunately the masses are uninformed. When people hear Symbian they immediately think of s60v5. Belle is entirely different and rock-solid.

      • Bataleon

        Unfortunately the masses are uninformed. When people hear Symbian they immediately think of s60v5. Belle is entirely different and rock-solid.

    • http://twitter.com/HailMarxism fred sparrow

      Belle FP1 is amazing (even better than android in some respects but definitely on par); I’ll certainly be purchasing an 808 PureView once it’s finally released, so hurry up and get the damn thing out Nokia.

      The sad part is that amateur reviewers from the likes of gsm arena, gizmodo, and the verge, will still trash it because of Symbian, even though the OS has matured into a very competitive alternative. I sincerely hope Mr Elop and his executive team have an ACE up their sleeve with this one.

  • Anonymous

    Ive got my preorder in already i just wish it was cheaper but i guess thats the price for being one of the first with it

  • http://twitter.com/nok4us Izzi

    I met a german the other day, not a tech savvy fellow but he took a keen liking to my Lumia 900 after he saw it used carl zeiss lens #BrandPower. So I gotta ask is does Nokia have exclusive rights to using carl zeiss in smartphones?

    • Karen Bartlett

      Carl Zeiss work with one company in each area – so for phones it is just with Nokia 

  • NMo9

    No mention of N9393i with their optical zoom lenses??

    • Karen Bartlett

      Sorry we couldn’t talk about them all, but there will be more articles on ZEISS to come 

      • NMo9

        No problem.. But I find it hard to accept when the N9393i aren’t mentioned when the other camera phones (N90, N95, N8 & 808) are because of the unique form-factor and the optical zoom lenses..

        Also, the N82 with the Xenon flash.

        • Karen Bartlett

          Point noted, we can work on that for the next one 

  • http://twitter.com/VicVanceIND ►Su*$hant ◄↑↓

    Nokia people are falling short to publicize belle,that’s not good at all.

  • Anonymous

    Hopefully the Nokia management sees the wisdom in releasing the 808 in as many markets as possible. Even if it’s not a phone for everyone it will appeal to a good number of people in all markets. Nokia should also ensure that the reviewers are properly informed in the correct use of the device. E.g. when the N8 was released some of the reviewers was using it completely wrong when the took sample photos and videos.

    • http://conversations.nokia.com Ian Delaney

       Thanks for the note on the mini-redesign.

    • http://conversations.nokia.com Ian Delaney

       Thanks for the note on the mini-redesign.

  • http://conversations.nokia.com Ian Delaney

    Holy moly – that red phone looks great.

  • http://twitter.com/Hdrules Hradayesh Nimavat

    its good that there is no mention of carl zeiss 8MP phones N9/lumia800/lumia900 in this article, as camera quality really sucks in those phones compare to other 8MP phones from competitors

    • http://twitter.com/corbas_ai Anton

      lol. Agree. Alas N9 isn’t proper cameraphone. Albeit with “Carl Zeiss Tessar” label on the back.  Also in photo world Carl Zeiss is not top level quality lence supplier. Leica is.

    • http://twitter.com/corbas_ai Anton

      lol. Agree. Alas N9 isn’t proper cameraphone. Albeit with “Carl Zeiss Tessar” label on the back.  Also in photo world Carl Zeiss is not top level quality lence supplier. Leica is.

  • Anonymous

    “41 megapixels. It was crazy! It took us some time at ZEISS to figure out if this was possible.”

    But they did it..!! And if Nokia decide to go further with Symbian or Maemo or (why not!) MeeGo (own) OS’s with the great optics from Zeiss then the future is bright..
    Because when Nokia fully support an OS then developers will support too (more apps,games etc.)..

    808 is Pure”Monster”..

  • http://twitter.com/_LudwigVan_ ☺Ludwig Van☺

    Have anyone notice that the camera part of the red 808 is not sticking out like it used to?

    • Anonymous

       I believe this is the hard case which suppose to sell separately and fit nicely to protect the lense. I read it somewhere. So, the phone design did not really change, but the case make it looks even much better.

      • Anonymous

        no hard case (CC-3046) in that picture, but a ‘good angle’. =D

      • Anonymous

        no hard case (CC-3046) in that picture, but a ‘good angle’. =D

      • Anonymous

        no hard case (CC-3046) in that picture, but a ‘good angle’. =D

      • Anonymous

        no hard case (CC-3046) in that picture, but a ‘good angle’. =D

  • http://twitter.com/_LudwigVan_ ☺Ludwig Van☺

    Have anyone notice that the camera part of the red 808 is not sticking out like it used to?

  • http://www.favbrowser.com FavBrowser.com

    Please bring it to Windows Phone with no compromises.

    Rumor has it that it will only use 12 mpx camera… (Verizon)

  • http://www.favbrowser.com FavBrowser.com

    Please bring it to Windows Phone with no compromises.

    Rumor has it that it will only use 12 mpx camera… (Verizon)

  • http://www.favbrowser.com FavBrowser.com

    Please bring it to Windows Phone with no compromises.

    Rumor has it that it will only use 12 mpx camera… (Verizon)

  • http://www.favbrowser.com FavBrowser.com

    Please bring it to Windows Phone with no compromises.

    Rumor has it that it will only use 12 mpx camera… (Verizon)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000596521530 ‘Àngel Betances

    The Problem with you Nokia is that you only focus on the Hardware and the Camera, and thats good but for real, You need release good aplications and very high quality games, like other companies do, dont you see ? You are losing people! because the others companies listen to them and give them what they want… “Good Aplication and Good/Very/Really High Quality Games” You know why i tell you this ? Because I love you Nokia and i dont wanna see you fall, all my phones has been Nokia devices, but you have the problem i told you! I LOVE YOU NOKIA!

    I WONT LEAVE YOU | But You Gotta Pay Attention! Work on it!
    Please, Listen to me!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000596521530 ‘Àngel Betances

    The Problem with you Nokia is that you only focus on the Hardware and the Camera, and thats good but for real, You need release good aplications and very high quality games, like other companies do, dont you see ? You are losing people! because the others companies listen to them and give them what they want… “Good Aplication and Good/Very/Really High Quality Games” You know why i tell you this ? Because I love you Nokia and i dont wanna see you fall, all my phones has been Nokia devices, but you have the problem i told you! I LOVE YOU NOKIA!

    I WONT LEAVE YOU | But You Gotta Pay Attention! Work on it!
    Please, Listen to me!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000596521530 ‘Àngel Betances

    The Problem with you Nokia is that you only focus on the Hardware and the Camera, and thats good but for real, You need release good aplications and very high quality games, like other companies do, dont you see ? You are losing people! because the others companies listen to them and give them what they want… “Good Aplication and Good/Very/Really High Quality Games” You know why i tell you this ? Because I love you Nokia and i dont wanna see you fall, all my phones has been Nokia devices, but you have the problem i told you! I LOVE YOU NOKIA!

    I WONT LEAVE YOU | But You Gotta Pay Attention! Work on it!
    Please, Listen to me!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000596521530 ‘Àngel Betances

    The Problem with you Nokia is that you only focus on the Hardware and the Camera, and thats good but for real, You need release good aplications and very high quality games, like other companies do, dont you see ? You are losing people! because the others companies listen to them and give them what they want… “Good Aplication and Good/Very/Really High Quality Games” You know why i tell you this ? Because I love you Nokia and i dont wanna see you fall, all my phones has been Nokia devices, but you have the problem i told you! I LOVE YOU NOKIA!

    I WONT LEAVE YOU | But You Gotta Pay Attention! Work on it!
    Please, Listen to me!

  • http://www.facebook.com/shuu33 Rafael Matos

    I would be happy if Nokia Belle could be treated with more attention, making it perfect even more. Because it has the potential to be as good as Windows Phone.

  • Anonymous

    A N9 like device with this technology and a camera cover would be great!

  • Anonymous

    A N9 like device with this technology and a camera cover would be great!

  • Pingback: Lunch without a lens–at least not a good one… | Lunch with a Lens

  • mitrikaercher

    Great article. I love my Nokia 808.